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  1. November 12, 2013 8:08 am

    This morning, I want to include here in comments both Greek Isaiah 63:15-16 and the start of “the Lord’s prayer” in Greek Matthew 6:9b-10 and Greek Luke 11:2b. Then I’ll offer my own English translation of this Hebraic Hellene poetry.

    Ἑπίστρεψον ἐκ τοῦ οὐρανοῦ
    καὶ ἰδὲ ἐκ τοῦ οἴκου τοῦ ἁγίου σου
    καὶ δόξης·

    ποῦ ἐστιν ὁ ζῆλός σου
    καὶ ἡ ἰσχύς σου;

    ποῦ ἐστιν τὸ πλῆθος τοῦ ἐλέους σου
    καὶ τῶν οἰκτιρμῶν σου,
    ὅτι ἀνέσχου ἡμῶν;

    σὺ γὰρ ἡμῶν εἶ πατήρ,
    ὅτι Αβρααμ οὐκ ἔγνω ἡμᾶς,
    καὶ Ισραηλ οὐκ ἐπέγνω ἡμᾶς,

    ἀλλὰ σύ, κύριε, πατὴρ ἡμῶν·
    ῥῦσαι ἡμᾶς,
    ἀπ’ ἀρχῆς τὸ ὄνομά σου
    ἐφ’ ἡμᾶς
    ἐστιν.
    —-

    πάτερ ἡμῶν
    ὁ ἐν τοῖς οὐρανοῖς,
    ἁγιασθήτω τὸ ὄνομά σου·
    ἐλθέτω ἡ βασιλεία σου·
    γενηθήτω τὸ θέλημά σου,
    ὡς ἐν οὐρανῷ,
    καὶ ἐπὶ [τῆς] γῆς·

    turn around from Heaven
    behold from Your Holy Household
    Glory!

    where is Your Devotion
    Your Strength?

    where is Your Mercy Lavish
    Your Yearning
    held back and ours?

    You indeed ours are, Daddy
    Ab-RaHam did not know us
    Isra-El did not know us

    But You, Sir, Daddy-ours
    come for us
    In the Beginning Your Name
    is for us
    —-

    Daddy-ours
    in Heaven
    Your Name be Holy
    Your Dominion bring down
    Your Wishes please birth
    in Heaven
    on Earth

  2. November 18, 2013 8:00 am

    On Abram K-J’s Greek Isaiah facebook site, Ken M. Penner points out that “ῥῦσαι ἡμᾶς is here [in the LXX Isaiah 63:16] and in the Lord’s Prayer.”

  3. james jordan permalink
    November 25, 2013 3:47 pm

    What is the point of this dribble? Jesus said “Our Father which art in heaven” and not “Our Mother which art in heaven”, so go argue with him hippie. Seriously, “but what if someone’s father is abusive”…what if someone’s mother is abusive? What if both their parents are abusive? What do you hippies propose changing the text to then? Obviously the prayer is based on healthy family relationships, of the sort that Jesus’ teaching should engender (but that Paul’s teaching destroys). I guess we can always change the prayer to “Our Democrat President which art in heaven” to satisfy you abortionist homosexual hippies.

  4. November 25, 2013 5:24 pm

    james jordan,

    When you start your rhetorical line of questioning, with “Seriously,” then I’m not at all sure who you’re really asking. Since your comment after my other post on The Rhetoric of NA28© is rather banal (i.e., “the Textus Receptus [is] … free”), hope you won’t mind my just responding to your comment here.

    Seriously, james, since you bring up “Our Father which art in heaven” (derived from the Textus Receptus, wasn’t it), then should you be too disturbed with how Anne Lamott reads it?

    God or Goodness, Love, Light, He/She/It, Howard, as in “Our Father who art in heaven, Howard be thy name,” whatever you want to call the sweet friendly wise energy that some of swear by

    Lamott has had one of her protagonists in one of her novels call him Howard; one of her friends in one of her autobiographies has, she writes, done the same. And then she’s used this biblical name in her most recent book of prayer.

    What I was hoping would be less distracting to you, and other readers of my post, is how the Greek gospels have Jesus modeling a prayer that seems derived from the Greek translation of the Hebrew Isaiah. So we have to go beyond the Textus Receptus to the Septuagint texts and beyond that to what looks like the Masoretic Text. Before hippies of any variety could “propose changing the text” in any way, I hoped you’d see, the texts were already changing. Before that, it would seem, Isaiah in Hebrew accuses God of having a רַחַם.

Trackbacks

  1. The power of language: from hell to heaven (pt 1 of 2) | power of language blog: partnering with reality by JR Fibonacci
  2. Words on the Word | Septuagint Studies Soirée #4

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